A Conversation about Higher Consciousness and the Evolution of the Human Brain


TK: Mr Krishna, you have had a Kundalini experience. I wish you could
explain what a Kundalini experience is and what its ramifications are.

GK: Before I start to describe my own experience, perhaps it would be
better to give a little detail about what Kundalini means. We are not using
the totality of the human brain. According to various estimates, most of us
use only ten percent of the brain and according to some only eight percent.
That means 90 percent of the brain is unutilized, that there is still a
large margin in the brain which could be used for other purposes, and
nature has provided it for certain purposes which are not yet known to
science. According to Indian tradition, there is a region in the brain
below the crown and about the pallette which is called Brahmarendra or the
cavity of Brahman. This region can be activated by certain disciplines and
when activated it can give to the individual the same vision of the
universe which all great mystics of the Earth have described. When it is
awakened the normal energy of the body or the blood is not able to fuel the
center. It needs a more powerful and constrained psychic fuel. This fuel
comes from the reproductive system, which is transformed into a kind of
radiation and that radiation awakens and makes the center function.

In my case, the awakening occurred at the age of 34, in 1937. I had been
meditating for 17 years and then all of a sudden during Christmas, while I
was sitting cross-legged in a state of meditation, a strange thing
happened. Something exploded in my brain and a current of silvery light
rising from my spine radiated throughout my whole brain, and I felt myself
expanding in all directions. This expansion was so incredible, so amazing
that I thought that something unusual had happened in my inner ear. After
this I had two other experiences of the same kind, at short intervals
apart, and it then succeeded.

But something was changing in me and I could perceive this change for many,
many years, day and night. In fact, I passed through grave crises during
that period. Finally, I became stabilized in that condition of
consciousness in my 49th year. Since that time I have been living in that
condition. That is to say, before my 34th year I was living in this world
thinking, seeing, perceiving in the same way as other people do, but since
my 49th year I have been living in two different worlds. One is the normal
world of senses and reason, and the other is the world which is much
higher, much more happy and which is totally apart from anything that we
can know of the earth. It is the world of consciousness.

TK: How do you see the world?

GK: We know what all people perceive of this world. I can understand what
you perceive of it, you can understand what I perceive of it. That is, this
perception is uniform. Everyone has the same perception. But this other
perception is different. In this other perception you do not see the world
as a solid, real, objective creation. The real objective creation is
consciousness. You see consciousness everywhere. You see the ocean as if it
is consciousness everywhere. You see the ocean as if it is living; you see a
mountain as if it is living; you see the sky as if it is living; you see the
Earth as if it is living; you see life or consciousness everywhere. And this
life or consciousness is not something which is really dead or which is
something you can understand. It is unfathomable. It is wonder and
everytime you see it, you perceive it. The wonder grows deeper. I am never
tired of sitting in quiet and reflecting on myself. I am never tired of
looking at the sky. The sky, to me, does not appear as it appeared before
my 34th year; it is so fascinating. It is such a beautiful vision that I
would like to look at it for days and months on end. In other words, in the
air a fountain of happiness, a new kingdom, I should say, is opened. This is
probably what Christ meant when he said, "The Kingdom of Heaven is within
you." This is the Nirvana of Buddha; and this is the state of Vada
mentioned by the Suffi mystics. In fact, in this inactive state what we
perceive is consciousness in its most magic form, in its glorious form, and
not consciousness as a point looking through the eyes or hearing through the
ears, but a consciousness which has its own channels and which knows that it
is the master and not the slave of the material forces which knows it is the
creator. It is infinite: it is deathless. In this state one feels himself to
be a king, he feels himself to be the master of what he sees. It is not the
ego. I should say it is not the ego; it is the very condition of this
consciousness. That is the reason why it is said that no mystic would
change his state even for a kingdom. It is somehing so unique, so glorious,
so elevating that I have no words to describe this state.

TK: What type of life must a person live to awaken their Kundalini?

GK: In order to make this clear, I would like to say that it is not
Kundalini per se, Kundalini is the power, the mechanism. But actually, what
we do is awaken to activity a certain region in the brain. This means that
nature has already provided a potential in the brain which has to be
awakened. This means that the brain can still organically evolve to a
higher performance. This is my experience, that the human brain is still
organically evolving in the direction of the great mystics, in the same
direction as the great geniuses. For this evolution a certain type of life
is necessary.

For instance, throughout our life this evolution is relentlessly going on
and we have to cooperate with it. When we do not cooperate with the inner
evolution we create problems for ourselves. For that purpose, for the last
5,000 years at least great prophets have been born. Beginning with the
Vedas, then Buddha, then Christ, then Mohammed, then Guru Nanak, and all
the ancient prophets of the Bible, they have been born time after time, and
they have given some 'teaching to mankind', which was a direction for how to
live while the brain is still evolving. Their Sermon on the Mount, the Ten
Commandments, the Discourses of Buddha, The Bhagavad-Gita, and all those
directions contained in the religious scriptures of the Earth -- they are
all meant to regulate our life so that we may live in harmony with the law
of evolution which governs our life.

The revolutionaries have come to regulate the lives of human beings so that
they may work in harmony with the law of evolution that is at work day and
night within their brains. When they depart from this law of evolution,
they always bring calamities or problems upon themselves. The present time
is one such occasion when we have digressed from the laws of evolution and
the result is that we are threatened from many directions.

The life to be lived is just as you see in the sermon on the Mountain - a
life of humility, a life of love, a life of purity, a life in which you
wish for others what you wish for yourself, a life in wich you are pure,
you are not sophisticated, you are not overly clever, you are not smart,
you do not use your cleverness or smartness to take what belongs to others,
a life of extreme purity and a life of simplicity, that you do not waste the
resources of the Earth.

As you know, every animal satisfies his basic needs from the recycled
resources of the Earth. Man is the only creature who is wasting the basic
resources -- the minerals -- for his own luxury and pleasure. That is what
the Sermon on the Mount is meant to teach, that humanity should live
simply, beautiful, pure, compassionate lives. That is the type of life
necessary for the awakening of Kundalini.

TK: And this is what all religions of the world say?

GK: Every prophet, every great mystic, even every philosopher, for
instance, Socrates or Plato. We will find that this life is okay: purity,
compassion, love, service is the ideal life which human beings have to

TK: Is there no change in consciousness in birth or in death? Would you
explain that?

GK: Here we come to metaphysics. We see the sun rising in the morning and
setting in the evening. Actually, is there any change in the sun? The same
is true of consciousness.

Consciousness is eternal: our souls. They are eternal, immutable, omissive,
omni-present, omnipotent, and our spark partakes of the same nature as the
divine, so there can be no death for this, no change for this. The change
occurs in our shells, mind, intellect, the senses. But not in the essence,
the principles which is consciousness.

TK: The more we use our mind, the greater our development of our evolution
takes place.

GK: The human brain is evolving rapidly because from morning until evening
we are applying our brain to some task, we are reading, we are looking
through the newspapers, we are watching the television or we are working in
the office.

Most of the people are applying their brain throughout the day, this was
not the case before when people hunted or when they were tilling the soil;
they had no need to apply their brain in such a constrained way.

We are now applying our brain in a very constrained way, from morning until
night. In other words we are meditating, though on material objects. The
result is a rapid state of evolution.

Our way of life must change, but we have not changed, on the other hand. We
have made our living and our life more and more complex and intricate, so
that all day we are working and working and working to feed our belly, to
live. We are giving no time to the mind, no time to the spirit. We are not
giving any thought to it. The results is that there is a disproportionate
evolution. We have developed a very powerful intellect as seen by the
scientific discoveries that have been made and the changes that have
occurred in our life, but on the other hand our spiritual and moral growth
has been negligible.

So what we have in mordern times is a disproportionate human being, a giant
of the intellect, on the one hand, and a pygmy of moral or spiritual growth.
This disproportion is at the base of the present threatening situation of
the world.

TK: What can we do to remedy that?

GK: What we can do is to make a thorough research of all the religious
scriptures of mankind, of all the occult traditions of the past, and to
make experiments on the brain. In fact, yoga was devised in India to make
experiments on the brain. The very word "yoga" means to yoke, to join the
individual soul with the over-soul, with moderation, with temperance. It is
this type of life that has to be led, not a luxury life of wasting the
Earth's resources, of pollutants polluting the planet, so that nature's
forces are now creating a situation in which either calamity occurs which
will change the direction of human life, or by their own sensible reaction
they will change themselves. Change has to occur in any way.

TK: The research of this force is the most urgent task of our time.

GK: It is the most urgent. I have been saying it, after observing my own
state for at least 30 years. For 30 years I said nothing because I wanted
to confirm that my experience was real experience, and not a delusion and
that it is corroborated by ancient tradition. I made a study of those
traditions, and I found that my experience is in conformity to the ancient
traditions. After that I wrote my first book, and now in my 80th year I
solemnly say this and this alone is the answer to modern crises.

The answer is this: The brain is evolving and present science doesn't know
how. There is complete darkness about it because you cannot see this
evolution of the brain. By external observation can see only neurons and
their connections. It has to be seen from internal observation by awakening
this power. When this power is awakened, then you are able to observe the
internal working of the brain and that shows you that you are still

TK: What do you propose? How do we investigate this?

GK: I think any sane government, any good government, should first make
research on the brain, on the nervous system. The ancient religious
traditions, the ancient occult traditions. After all, we have to understand
that religion has always been a companion of man. We have evidence that man
was religious even two hundred thousand years ago. The first relics found
show that those people were performing religious rituals, so it means
religion has always been a part of human life.

What research have we made on it? We have made research on psychic coma.
But no research on religious tradition and religious experience. If we were
to devote as much time and resources as we devote to other scientific
experiments, the results would be a hundred-fold more precious.

TK: The results would prove...

GK: The results will show that the human brain is still organically
evolving, that certain lifestyles, certain ways of behavior are necessary
to live in conformity to the inner changes, and that religion came in time
to guide mankind on this path.

TK: And it is the path that will lead us to the stars, if it is our purpose

GK: It will lead humanity to this new dimension of consciousness. It will
lead to the goal which nature has assigned for her. It will lead humanity
to a peaceful co-existence, to happiness, to long life, to much greater
achievement than she has done, even now. It will lead her to the
exploration of the universe.

TK: How will this affect the political structure?

GK: I need not say, for the experiments will show what kind of life and
what kind of environment a human being must have to evolve completely in
harmony with the law of evolution, there will be more freedom.

TK: I believe that things happpen not by chance but by purpose to our life,
that there is a purpose to our existence.

GK: Now, please tell me, can such a vast creation be purposeless? Can such
a vast creation come out of nothing? Can such a vast creation ruled by laws
be all composed of dead, insensitive matter? The very idea of being -
existence - - comes from the mind. A rock or a mountain or an ocean has no
idea of existence, this existence comes from intelligence, and the author
of the universe must be intelligent. If we didn't have an intelligent
creator, there would be no purpose to this existence. There must be a
purpose. If there was no purpose, how have we then come to have a purpose
in ourselves? We do everything with a purpose. How has this purpose come if
there is no purpose in creation? How do we act on purpose? So it means that
purpose and plan is a part of consciousness.

TK: The very fact that we build nuclear weapons is spiting nature's wrath.
You said that nature is very merciful, and that nature will use the least
amount of force to put us back on the proper path.

GK: Unless nature were merciful, how would we be here? You see this Earth,
inside the Earth, fire, it is a volcano, inside inferno and outside the
Earth fire. You have cosmic rays coming, for which you have an umbrella.
Known as the "hemisphere layer" this umbrella is 50 miles from the earth.
If you didn't have this layer there would be total destruction of all life
in a short time. We are so protected that even on single slip or error can
destroy all of life on Earth. If nature were not merciful, how could we
live? The very fact that we are alive and that all these hazards around us
are controlled by other powers means that nature is merciful and kind.

TK: And even though we are building nuclear weapons, spiting nature's
wrath, nature will be merciful.

GK: It gives us chance after chance. Just as we overeat and go on
overeating, many times nature forgives us. But when we indulge too much in
this bad habit we have a serious pain in our digestive organs. When we
overdo a thing then naturally disaster overtakes us, so we cannot blame
nature. But ourselves, we have an intelligence, we have reason, we have
learning. But if by having everything we ignore it, then of course nature
has no alternative except to teach us by suffering. For instance, 16
civilizations have perished so far, and we are not even aware of what
reasons prevailed that made those civilizations at the height of power
mingle with dust. The reason is that at every stage of progress, life of
man has to change.

For instance, a child grows up and he lives one type of life when is an
infant. Another kind of child, has tastes, his activities change when he is
an adolescent, then further when he is an adult. Then when he is mature and
at last when he is old. At every stage he has different tastes, different
activities, different ways of life. The same is the case of nations and
people. They have to change at every stage in their development. For
instance, there were once feudal systems: before that, clans, tribes, or
monarchies. But now we have democracy, so even the systems of our
governments are changing. Why? Because our brain is evolving. But when we
stop living according to the laws of our evolution, we degenerate
indignantly. This is also happening at present.

TK: If a man wants to go into his room and hang himself, no one can stop
him. This is what we are doing with nuclear weapons.

GK: When we deviate from the path we invite suffering and disaster for us.
There are devices in our brain, in consciousness, which when we digress we
invite a calamity or disaster. We are devising nuclear weapons: there is no
sense in that. War can be fought without nuclear weapons but we are devising
weapons to punish ourselves.

TK: So what is the hope? Where does the hope come from?

GK: Heaven is always merciful. If we analyze the course of our present
dilemma -- crisis -- and try to change that, try to live more in harmony
with the laws of evolution, this threat will be averted. But if we continue
like this there is no chance. We must suffer.

TK: What would you tell the leaders of the world?

GK: The leaders of the world have to be convinced and for that convincing
the experiment is necessary.

TK: The analyzing of Kundalini energy?

GK: We have to show that the brain is evolving, and that this evolution
needs a certain kind of harmonious life. If this life is denied, man
degenerates and brings calamity upon himself.

TK: You have the Kundalini Research Foundation in Canada and in
Switzerland. Please explain to the public what this is.

GK: It can be started anywhere. If it is good, it is started in many
places. The United States can provide a beautiful environment for this

TK: You propose taking a hundred people and...

GK: For the experiment a hundred people will be needed but for running the
organization we can have any number of people who have a deep passion for
spiritual matters and who are prepared to mold their lives in consort with
the spiritual laws. They would be more than welcome in this organization.

TK: And these hundred people will lead a life prescribed and hopefully out
of this hundred, one or two will awaken.

GK: Out of the hundred to whom the disciplines are given, maybe three or
four will show the symptoms, some time after which scientists can observe

TK: What would examples of this be? What will happen to these people?

GK: What will happen is that the brain activity will be increased and its
effect will be found all over the body. There will be metabolic processes
which can be measured. There will be physiological changes which can be

TK: And the effects of this on the world?

GK: They will convince the biologist that this change of the mind, of the
brain, has physiological systems. Those into whom these processes start may
bloom into geniuses. By blooming into a mystic, both sides will be
confirmed. For it is the evolution of the brain that creates a mystic or a

TK: And these are the same mystics and geniuses all throughout time, that
we would study in the past?

GK: For the first time we will study the religions and the occult
literature of the world with an aim to finding how the brain evolves, and
what methods are needed to make it more active so that the evolutionary
processes become faster.

TK: So in effect this will be the spearhead of a new race of human beings
to prove all human begins have this ability.

GK: It will be a spearhead for many things. It will be the spearhead of
changes in the social and political systems. It will be a spearhead for the
first time bringing to the notice of the race that there is the potential in
every human being which is the most precious asset that he has, and which
can transform him from a mortal into an immortal and eternal source of

TK: Is this what evolution has meant of human destiny and it is inevitable
for this to take place?

GK: Man has come for this purpose. Otherwise please consider this for a
moment: one whole planet -- the Earth -- and all its kingdom -- mineral,
animal, everything -- is placed at his disposal. Why? Because man has to
attain to other states of consciousness for which all these recourses are
needed by him. Otherwise, if it is not a planned creation it would be
useless to put all this at his disposal. If he has nothing to do, only to
live like animals. It is because he has to reach to higher dimensions of
consciousness that all this Earth and its resources have been placed at his
disposal, and he has been granted an intelligence to make the best use of

TK: A strong love from birth, a strong mother and father, a strong, loving
environment will help develop this.

GK: I can't say strong, but I can say that a more harmonious, more
peaceful, more happy, more contented humanity will come out of this, and
then in every generation there will be some people who have reached the
higher dimensions. They will be the rulers, political leaders, scientists,
and educators. They will guide the race to rise higher and higher and

TK: And we don't have a spiritual leader of that magnitude today?

GK: At this time we do not but they will come. They will be born when
experiments are made and what I say is confirmed.

TK: What is your wish for the children of the future?

GK: Children should be brought up with the ideal cultivated in them that
the universe is ruled by an intelligent power, that they must cultivate
purity, honesty, truth, compassion and live ideal lives. In that way they
will conform to the evolutionary needs. That is the best thing we can do
for the children.

TK: How can we help the people today who have been lost to drugs or have
killed people? What do they need to know?

GK: When you place before them an alternative that in their own entirety
there is a mind of happiness, an ocean of eternal life, and prove it they
will take that path. You must show them a better incentive.

TK: What do we need to evolve moderate lifestyles? How can we effect our
evolutionary process the best?

GK: We need healthy food, simple dress, a clean shelter, a wholesome
occupation, education for our children, to have the highest happiness on
the earth. Happiness comes from the mind, not from the world. A man may
have all the luxuries but his mind might be depressed. He will never be
happy. It is the mind that gives us happiness. A peasant, a poor farmer
eating just a bread with a little salt, sometimes has a better appetite and
eats with more relish, than a rich man who eats all his delicious food.
Nature is very, very wise in this. I have seen people who live hardy lives
who eat with such an appetite, simple foods that one would like to eat with

TK: Are the biological bases of manic depression, schizophrenia, and genius
all manifestations of the same thing?

GK: Yes, they are interrelated. You see, if you do not live a disciplined
life, then the awakening of this center can be unhealthy. We know that many
of the geniuses perhaps have been most mentally unhealthy, had on mental
disorder or the other. This is due to the fact that they did not know how
they had to live. Similarly, we have this schizophrenia. Many people who
think they are poets, some who think they are spiritual geniuses, some who
think they are in touch with God. That means a distorted vision of the same

TK: It means that their Kundalini --if that's the right word -- is off

GK: Yes, it means that the system is not pure and that the energy is not
working in a healthy way.

TK: Do you feel that there are other life forms beyond our life?

GK: There can be in the universe different species of life more intelligent
than we. It is a vast place and there can be thousands of species different
and more intelligent than we.